tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post7627730349352310353..comments2024-03-18T07:23:32.809-04:00Comments on Gurney Journey: Art Renewal CenterJames Gurneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01870848001990898499noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-14706656721950546892012-02-27T03:51:54.963-05:002012-02-27T03:51:54.963-05:00Thanks Frankie for the intelligent support.
'...Thanks Frankie for the intelligent support.<br /><br />'My Pen Name', I suggest you report yourself to James Gurney's studio immediately. He has never had the option to paint a dinosaur from life.Melliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11506407316395323671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-42505332602600840252012-02-23T23:11:34.448-05:002012-02-23T23:11:34.448-05:00Dear James, I have followed ARC for many years and...Dear James, I have followed ARC for many years and I must tell you how happy I was the other day when I discovered that they have recognized you as the "Modern Master" that you are! They are a prestigious organization in my estimation, and one that does not accept mediocrity. Congratulations to you for this addition to your already outstanding list of accomplishments! <br />All the best, <br />Marsha Rhodes GilliamMarsha Rhodes Gilliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16822660031811624373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-86603818313462006972012-02-23T22:04:46.241-05:002012-02-23T22:04:46.241-05:00@frankie
condescendingly referring to someone as &...@frankie<br /><i>condescendingly referring to someone as "sweetheart" is an insult you would reserve only for someone you thought was a woman</i><br />oh you're so right. When i was in college, our rugby coach called us 'lads' only you can imagine the indignation and trauma I suffered, me, a grown up 19 year old being called an infantilizing child's name! The horror! and he continued to call me that horrible name even AFTER I had passed art history 101! (Guess what, when we screwed up he called us a lot worse than lads). I am so glad people of your ilk have fought for campus speech codes to save us from that trauma. Still.. to this day.. to this day.. nearly 20 years later the mens and women's teams are still segregated! Gender apartheid! <br /><br />It gets worse. Once, when I was in a roadside diner a middle aged waitress (sorry for the sexist gender specific word) called me <i>hon</i> could you imagine? ! how condescending! I felt.... well like those exploited daughters of Edward Boit! <br /><br /><i>LOL at your fears that "I'm trying to censor you."</i><br />I have no doubt Frankie, that had I used that horrible word "dear" in person, you would indeed report me to your local campus thought police (and I really hope you are a college student and under 23, because I can find no other excuse for your 'views')<br /><br /><i>As for the book you love, I thought it was odd that someone would equate a draining interest in representational art among some buyers with rape, but now I see it's an entire book dedicated to the kind of misogynistic drivel you're spewing in this thread</i><br /><br />Ah, I see, so now, <b>the book </b> is 'dedicated to misogynistic drivel'. Et Tu, Roger Kimball! Perhaps if you actually stopped to read it before, becoming red eyed with anger, you'd learn what the book is actually about. No Frankie, it has nothing to with a 'draining' (?) interest in representational art among buyers, or equating that with rape. <br /><br />Wrong on two accounts. Firstly, it's not about the art market, but rather, art criticism and the state of art history in academia. Second, it includes chapters on artists like Rothko who can hardly be accused of being a 'representational' artist.My Pen Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163003696435139513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-42335282842267793752012-02-23T19:19:11.376-05:002012-02-23T19:19:11.376-05:00@ect, etc
I am truly sorry to hear that. I cannot ...@ect, etc<br />I am truly sorry to hear that. I cannot even begin to imagine, though I know someone who suffered similar abuse. I would never think deliberately taunt someone about that (and I am not at all saying you are accusing me of that, you bring up a very relevant point) <br /><br /><br />I suppose it is not unlike conversations about spanking. - those who have had mild constructive punishments as a child react very differently to victims of true beatings and abuse. <br /><br />I have similar reactions that as you to the carvaggio paintings (if they are the ones i am thinking of) but the reactions of certain posters here seem to be the result of a bad art history teacher, not unlike the ones cited in the ArtRenewal essay.My Pen Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163003696435139513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-13509158574103801072012-02-23T14:16:29.446-05:002012-02-23T14:16:29.446-05:00(from Unknown - I hadn't set my username yet) ...(from Unknown - I hadn't set my username yet) Thanks for clarifying about the abstract bit. I also like what you said about not pitting one group of artists over another. In the end, artists should be humble and be open to viewing/experiencing all sorts of art. Whether we like it or not is another thing entirely... but hey, some folks like oranges and others don't, right? Doesn't mean I should go writing articles about how oranges aren't fruit. :)nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10039265720516388068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-28220246808513680652012-02-23T13:50:20.696-05:002012-02-23T13:50:20.696-05:00My Pen Name,
I agree there are some real absurditi...My Pen Name,<br />I agree there are some real absurdities coming from Marxism, Feminism, Gender, etc. approaches to art. However, I think it's important to bear in mind that a large percentage of women have been the victims of sexual abuse, which can very much color one's perceptions and responses to certain subject matter in art. As a young boy, I was fondled and went through a grooming process by a pedophile; many have suffered much worse, but even that level affects one in profound ways that those who have been fortunate enough not to experience it cannot comprehend. I find Caravaggio's paintings of nude boys repulsive to a degree that most other people might not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-50784333242625395992012-02-23T13:00:27.862-05:002012-02-23T13:00:27.862-05:00MyPenName, obviously I wasn't criticizing Boug...MyPenName, obviously I wasn't criticizing Boug, only your blatant sexism, and now your aggressive ignorance and complete bafflement at how what you said could even be construed as sexist. Yes, calling a woman cutesy pet names when arguing is treating her like a child and degrading in a way that is only directed at women. It might have been just a fluke and clumsy word choice on your part, but your attacks on feminism show otherwise.<br /><br />"post modern feminism and cultural marxism are absurd, and rightly subject to ridicule particularly when it comes to art. Roger Kimbal wrote a whole book on it "The Rape of the Masters.""<br /><br />What on Earth is "cultural marxism" and how, in your mind, does it even equate to feminism? The word makes me think of white people scarred of the "browning" of America, but maybe it's not so insidious on your part. I'm not interested either way.<br /><br />As for the book you love, I thought it was odd that someone would equate a draining interest in representational art among some buyers with rape, but now I see it's an entire book dedicated to the kind of misogynistic drivel you're spewing in this thread. Charming.<br /><br />"Spare me, sweetheart."<br /><br />Is this what is feels like to be a woman confronted with male privilege? I have to give women in this society credit; they must put up with a lot of shit. <br /><br />"(so now I will get a lecture about being 'insulting' but it's ok for you to call me a misogynist, right?)"<br /><br />Sure, because you are one, and you've demonstrated that with every post made in this thread for some reason. I was not calling you out for being "insulting," I was calling you out for calling women you disagree with baby names (condescendingly referring to someone as "sweetheart" is an insult you would reserve only for someone you thought was a woman) and your incessant need to attack feminism even in threads that have nothing to do with it.<br /><br />LOL at your fears that "I'm trying to censor you."Frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02235686246852678519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-35006456977192846242012-02-23T10:50:07.591-05:002012-02-23T10:50:07.591-05:00lastly, again from the Art Renewal site:
As a rece...lastly, again <b>from the Art Renewal site</b>:<br /><i>As a recent M.A. graduate in art history I have witnessed first-hand the widespread nature of these non-aesthetic readings of art. Interpretations like that listed above are not the exception, but de rigueur of an art history university education. In classes, I have sat before slides of traditional nineteenth-century paintings <b>where grating feminist theory has been offered to answer the question “What do you see in this painting?”</b> Nearly any available object contained potential to be a phallic symbol, <b>any shy female expression was a result of sexual repression, and any feminine charm was meant to imply a male chauvinist gaze.</b></i><br /><br />http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/2005/Kimball/review.phpMy Pen Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163003696435139513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-91210233442037642092012-02-23T10:41:35.605-05:002012-02-23T10:41:35.605-05:00Of course Bouguereau's Nymphs and Satyr is sex...<i>Of course Bouguereau's Nymphs and Satyr is sexual. </i><br />i was addressing her comments about shepherdesses, not the nymphs and satyr, but I am curious how would you paint it, or should this myth which is deeply rooted in our psyche just be 'banned' as 'sexist'? . <br /><br />Mellie said:<br /><br /><i>at depicting women as as bland, expressionless shepherdesses, </i><br /><br />I think it takes a particularly political bent mind to see that in one of Bougurereau's paintings. . The same sort of mind sees the Daughters of Ew. Boit as 'a harem' ( I kid you not: "In the end, Lubin's fanciful enemy is, of course, the “white patriarchal capitalist,” Mr. E. D. Boit himself, and the entire piece can be viewed as “his harem, his congregation of wives.”3 In Lubin's hands Sargent's painting becomes a space of transgressive sexual turmoil of the most disgusting kind.").<br /><br />And Frankie that is what people of this political bent have been doing to western art - trying to degrade and warp its meaning -to create a bland, meaningless, genderless, colorless world with all the charm of a soviet housing project. <br /><br />http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/2005/Kimball/review.php<br /><br /><i>Most of the "living masters" promoted by ARC produce desperately boring pictures.</i><br /><br />Mellie made plenty of sweeping, insulting comments like this, but that doesn't seem to bother you, does it?My Pen Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163003696435139513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-85645688718336326102012-02-23T10:31:03.720-05:002012-02-23T10:31:03.720-05:00To Frankie an My Pen Name: You've both made yo...To Frankie an My Pen Name: You've both made your positions very clear. Thank you. May I suggest an end to that particular debate on this forum?Tom Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04770238579550226268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-16304158186091644762012-02-23T10:26:08.423-05:002012-02-23T10:26:08.423-05:00@frankie.
My 'attacks" ? This is so typic...@frankie.<br />My 'attacks" ? This is so typical. Make outrageous, insulting comments and claims then be 'hurt' when someone points out the absurdity. <br /><br />Yes Frankie, post modern feminism and cultural marxism are absurd, and rightly subject to ridicule, particularly when it comes to art. Roger Kimbal wrote a whole book on it "The Rape of the Masters". <br /><br /><i>not with a misogynist like yourself.</i><br />so the use of the word dear=misogynist. <br /><br />I am sure you would like to see me 'banned' as you ilk often ends up doing on campuses across the country to anyone who dare questions your empty assertions.<br /><br />Spare me, sweetheart. <br />(so now I will get a lecture about being 'insulting' but it's ok for you to call me a misogynist, right?)My Pen Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163003696435139513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-59257597918596062602012-02-23T05:01:11.108-05:002012-02-23T05:01:11.108-05:00@Frankie - Well said.@Frankie - Well said.phiqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11424182011653329283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-66036164193660323492012-02-23T02:08:30.906-05:002012-02-23T02:08:30.906-05:00"Sigh.. sounds like someone's taken a tir..."Sigh.. sounds like someone's taken a tiresome 'womyns studies' course. "<br /><br />"an angry, humorless feminist, how novel. <br /><br />No my dear, thinking that Bouguereau depicting a young country shepherdess without an angry sneer or an utterly unfeminine pose is somehow 'oppressing' women. "<br /><br />MyPenName, whether or not you disagree with Mellie, your attacks on feminists and condescending pet names directed at this person because you found out she is a woman is boorish and uncalled for, not to mention bizarre given the context. You didn't even address the point she was making. Of course Bouguereau's Nymphs and Satyr is sexual. Many of his paintings are. Whether or not woman should be sexualized in paintings like that is an interesting discussion to have, but not with a misogynist like yourself.Frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02235686246852678519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-11289736268428995212012-02-22T22:35:00.386-05:002012-02-22T22:35:00.386-05:00James, you have been my hero for a long time. Yo...James, you have been my hero for a long time. You deserve every recognition from every possible body there is. To be recognized by ARC, when I believe their natural tendency would be to be wary of Illustrators, shows that they do not have blinders on after all. The caliber of your work is speaks for itself. The tile is apt: Living Master.<br /><br />Congratulations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-9566058146904532232012-02-22T18:30:12.797-05:002012-02-22T18:30:12.797-05:00Mr. Gurney
We can include Frazetta is this fight ...Mr. Gurney<br /><br />We can include Frazetta is this fight (besides Bouguereau, Rockwell, Picasso, and Damien Hirst. )<br /><br />In a post about him in the site hoodedutilitarian.com<br />http://hoodedutilitarian.com/2010/06/frazetta-in-perspective/<br /><br />author Robert Stanley Martin says:<br /><br />(about Catgirl)<br />"...Picasso evoked it in Les Demoiselles d’Avignon (1907), considered by many to be the greatest painting of the twentieth century, and it is also present in Matisse’s early masterwork Carmelina (1904). Cat Girl is nowhere near the level of Les Demoiselles d’Avignon – Frazetta can’t begin to compete with Picasso’s stylistic originality — but I think it’s a stronger work than the Matisse. Carmelina explores the subject entirely through characterization; its central dynamic is the contrast between the harshness of the <br />protagonist’s face and the sensuousness of her body. Frazetta’s treatment is far more poetic—the drama is created through metaphor. I think Cat Girl is the finest thing he ever <br />did, and one notes that he was extremely fond of it himself; the original was kept framed above the drawing board in his studio."<br /><br />Let me repeat:<br />"...but I think it’s a stronger work than the Matisse (Carmelina)"<br /><br />How can a human being compare Catgirl to Carmelina ?<br /><br />well...<br /><br />Frazetta's Catgirl (1984)<br />http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EyDdN2G1_hQ/TzCqfARkpOI/AAAAAAAAAmQ/YJfxTEn9eRw/s1600/frank_frazetta_catgirl.jpg<br /><br />Matisse’s "masterwork" Carmelina (1904)<br />http://www.sai.msu.su/cjackson/matisse/matisse10.jpg<br /><br />Picasso's "Les Demoiselles d’Avignon" (1907).<br />"considered by many to be the greatest painting of the twentieth century"<br />http://www.moma.org/explore/conservation/demoiselles/images/demoiselles_NewFINAL.jpg<br /><br />People are afraid to tell that don't like Picasso or Matisse.<br />I'm not.<br /><br />p.s.<br />I love your work, Master.nuumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17749892880444445568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-46912218716328131662012-02-22T15:28:13.137-05:002012-02-22T15:28:13.137-05:00I think it's interesting how certain artists b...I think it's interesting how certain artists become flashpoints of debates about art and taste. Usually people end up focusing on Bouguereau, Rockwell, Picasso, or Damien Hirst. <br /><br />I'm always intrigued why it's them, and not others. Maybe talking about them keeps them all alive in a way. I kind of wish people were arguing about Edwin Austin Abbey or Alphonse Mucha, because they deserve both the heat and light of discussion.<br /><br />I would also say of Bouguereau that when I saw the huge retrospective of his work in the mid-1980s, I was struck and moved by his early paintings, such as <a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/Image:William-Adolphe_Bouguereau_(1825-1905)_-_Dante_And_Virgil_In_Hell_(1850).jpg" rel="nofollow">Dante and Virgil in hell,</a> and his Pieta, which were so different from what I expected, and so deeply and sincerely felt. He had remarkable range, and who knows what he, or Norman Rockwell, or Pablo Picasso-- would have been painting if they were born into our times. <br /><br />Maybe they are glad that someone back on Earth was still arguing about them. The worst death is oblivion.James Gurneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870848001990898499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-56066531354777197492012-02-22T15:05:32.228-05:002012-02-22T15:05:32.228-05:00So he's technically superlative... at depictin...<i>So he's technically superlative... at depicting women as as bland, expressionless shepherdesses, and as naked and available nymphs for the prurient satisfaction of male onlookers.</i><br /><br />Mellie,<br />O.k. fair enough for me. I'm mildly repulsed by certain subject matter myself...just not nymphs. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-53316522573926969332012-02-22T13:50:18.335-05:002012-02-22T13:50:18.335-05:00Congrats, well deserved! I have your book, it'...Congrats, well deserved! I have your book, it's very useful (finally an art instruction book that treats all aspects of painting, including gamuts!) It is also very enjoyable, artworks are beautiful. Personally I find Bougeureau a bit kitsch though technically perfect. Surely to prefer to so many modern artworks!Agneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17115962979992976225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-77248432599596319562012-02-22T12:18:56.676-05:002012-02-22T12:18:56.676-05:00Mellie,
Do you think that Picasso's "mas...Mellie,<br /><br />Do you think that Picasso's "masterpiece" "Les demoiselles d'Avignon" is a desperately boring picture ?<br /><br />Do you understand Picasso's painting ?<br />Do you like Matisse and de Kooning?<br /><br />I don't. <br /><br />The Emperor is naked.nuumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17749892880444445568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-80939741457991258692012-02-22T11:27:39.377-05:002012-02-22T11:27:39.377-05:00Thanks, GH Kohalakat--that's worthy of a post!...Thanks, GH Kohalakat--that's worthy of a post! Where can I get one of those robots?James Gurneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870848001990898499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-42311022264941817962012-02-22T11:14:50.502-05:002012-02-22T11:14:50.502-05:00Speaking of digital art, the singularity approache...Speaking of digital art, the singularity approaches, http://www.gizmag.com/industrial-robot-pencil-sketches/21547/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=1c93ad06b6-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=emailghpacifichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829514410903378217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-14653211305414084872012-02-22T09:47:10.863-05:002012-02-22T09:47:10.863-05:00So thinking that women should be treated equally t...<i>So thinking that women should be treated equally to men is tiresome? Charming. Perhaps you should take a course yourself, in learning to spell.</i><br />an angry, humorless feminist, how novel. <br /><br />No my dear, thinking that Bouguereau depicting a young country shepherdess without an angry sneer or an utterly unfeminine pose is somehow 'oppressing' women. <br /><br /><br />@cole<br /><i>Perhaps you should direct your criticism towards 19th century French society.<br /></i><br />our ugly, rude, vulgar, corrupt, decadent society could take some lessons from the 19th century, rather than criticize.My Pen Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163003696435139513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-21492904566016933582012-02-22T09:28:45.303-05:002012-02-22T09:28:45.303-05:00Mellie, no great artwork is created without great ...Mellie, no great artwork is created without great technique. Bouguereau created immensely popular artwork that was directly relevant to the society and culture in which he lived. Perhaps you should direct your criticism towards 19th century French society.<br /><br />Are you citing James Gurney as a painter of superior ability to William Bouguereau? A beaming endorsement, if so.Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527084629284108493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-25287558050287319642012-02-22T09:28:30.934-05:002012-02-22T09:28:30.934-05:00"...You had to be taught to love Picasso, bec..."...You had to be taught to love Picasso, because nobody would love him otherwise. But people don't need to be taught to love Rembrandt, Michelangelo, Bouguereau, or for that matter Chopin, Beethoven, Bach, or Tom Sawyer, The Grapes of Wrath, Alice in Wonderland, or The Christmas Carol."<br /><br />Fred Ross, Chairman of the Art Renewal Centernuumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17749892880444445568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-22526732785918540442012-02-22T09:14:05.593-05:002012-02-22T09:14:05.593-05:00"Clearly for many people it is more important..."Clearly for many people it is more important to feel that they are some part of an elitist in-group that is endowed with the special ability to see brilliance where the bulk of humanity sees nothing and is afraid to say so. Since most people aren't devoted to or educated in fine art, they have successfully intimidated the bulk of humanity into cowering away in silence, feeling foolish for their inability to understand. The average person shrinks away from believing the reality of his or her own senses in the face of seemingly overwhelming numbers of people in this 20th century "establishment" who authoritatively dictate what is great art and what everyone should be seeing."<br /><br />Fred Ross, Chairman of the Art Renewal Centernuumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17749892880444445568noreply@blogger.com