tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post4414449261572332965..comments2024-03-28T16:36:12.581-04:00Comments on Gurney Journey: The Zorn PaletteJames Gurneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01870848001990898499noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-53625420443505145282020-01-24T12:42:08.225-05:002020-01-24T12:42:08.225-05:00Sorry, didnt read all the replies but I guarantee ...Sorry, didnt read all the replies but I guarantee you the 4 color palette is untrue and seems his studio proves it. Lies die hard though.Tim Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02421466725369695094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-37233833199103510332018-07-03T11:43:38.443-04:002018-07-03T11:43:38.443-04:00I think he probably did use blue - but it would ha...I think he probably did use blue - but it would have been very expensive.<br /><br /> No doubt he knew how Vine Black with a pinch of Alizerin Crimzon, in an isolated area such as in his painting, against a very bright, warm surrounding, would push that reddish grey to a violet. Without, I should add, any blue? Tricky to pull off though.James Murchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09382279859754684745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-86014073292990363172018-02-23T06:13:26.411-05:002018-02-23T06:13:26.411-05:00The classical drawing genre known as 'trois cr...The classical drawing genre known as 'trois crayons' uses only three colours - black, white and sanguine (a rusty red.) Together with tan coloured paper this is the Zorn palette. See Rubens, Watteau, Boucher etc. Peter Bridgmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448197474388071985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-88055956950744777502018-02-23T06:13:01.063-05:002018-02-23T06:13:01.063-05:00The classical drawing genre known as 'trois cr...The classical drawing genre known as 'trois crayons' uses only three colours - black, white and sanguine (a rusty red.) Together with tan coloured paper this is the Zorn palette. See Rubens, Watteau, Boucher etc. Peter Bridgmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448197474388071985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-81275961220267516672017-07-28T14:18:45.583-04:002017-07-28T14:18:45.583-04:00Except that Titanium White didn't exist as an ...Except that Titanium White didn't exist as an artist's color until 1921. And the black pigments available to the Renaissance painters did not have a blue bend, but rather leaned towards the warm. Bone, slate, and carbon black, mostly. And the lead white they did use (among a few others) also had a warm cast.<br /><br />And then there are the inventoried tubes of chromium oxide green and cobalt blue which were found in Zorn's studio following his death. Quite a few of them.<br /><br />In other words, the so-called "Zorn Palette" is a myth and a bit of a misdirection for anyone trying to recreate his method. It originates from a self portrait Zorn executed in oil holding up a hand palette that had the four colors people think he only used. Did he put a lot of cool hues in his mixtures? No. But did he use them when needed? Yes. Did he disabuse others of this myth? No.<br /><br />https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/79/2e/41792e2d886971397a51130dbc26d0ba.jpg<br /><br />Can you (or I) or anyone else recreate Zorn's full gamut with this mythical palette?<br /><br />No...<br /><br />Thomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-13954588229032583222017-07-28T11:49:42.227-04:002017-07-28T11:49:42.227-04:00I know the Zorn palette as the classical Renaissan...I know the Zorn palette as the classical Renaissance palette,<br />employing the same four colors. I fail to see any difference, having put the classical palette, Yellow Ochre, Vermilion Rouge, Titanium White, and Black (Payne's Grey is a wonderful substitute for black and <br />can coax deep blue shades) to work, to produce limitless color results! Of course classical painters predates Sweden's Mr. Zorn!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800245186002787637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-12064863501124658802015-08-20T20:16:31.333-04:002015-08-20T20:16:31.333-04:00And Tuomas, just to continue, and perhaps actuall...And Tuomas, just to continue, and perhaps actually try to answer (or suggest a few answers) to your question...<br /><br />I just spent a little time examining a hi-rez image of a painting by Zorn, one that affords extreme close up views of the surface. While this may be a small sample to examine, I'd guess Zorn likely used both stiff (hog hair?) and softer (Sable? Ox? Squirrel?) brusheswith in the same painting. But again there are many factors that contribute to how the paint goes down, and how it will appears after it has set or dried...<br /><br />Did Zorn paint alla prima? (yes, for a lot of his passages and certainly for his finishing top work) Did Zorn paint into a 'couch', aka, a thin coat of oil rubbed over dried areas of a painting that helps integrate a new layer with the underlying one. (yes) Did Zorn often load his brush with multiple colors before pulling a finishing bravura brush stroke (yes). Did he scumble thin passages of paint as an underpainting and then lay thicker, oilier paint on top? (yes) Did Zorn load enough paint on a brush to transfer it to the wet surface without engaging the hair of that brush, essentially skating or kissing wet paint-to-paint, intentionally avoiding physical brush contact? (yes)<br /><br />All of this can be done with mixture of stiff and soft brushes, rounds, brights, flats, filberts, eggberts, and things we may not even know about. And each brush will impart a different character.<br /><br />As I said, oil is an amazing medium, capable of going in so many directions. That's why I love it so much myself.<br /><br /><br />Thomas Kitts<br />http://wwwthomaskitts.comThomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-72207653488179932492015-08-20T19:57:17.837-04:002015-08-20T19:57:17.837-04:00Tuomas, the media of oil is so plastic and malleab...Tuomas, the media of oil is so plastic and malleable that your question is hard to answer. <br /><br />While I have seen a lot of Zorn's paintings firsthand, I personally haven't researched what kind of brushes he may have preferred, but I suspect it was more than one kind. Besides, the strokes and surface quality of a painting can be affected by more than the choice of a brush. It can be impacted by how much oil, or medium is incorporated into the paint, what kind of oil is incorporated, meaning is it refined with alkaloids, or water-washed, is it sun-bleached, heat-bodied, sun-thickened, or even partially oxidized by being gently exposed to air over time? Is there calcite or aluminum stearate in the paint, is there a wide range of pigment particle sizes or are all the granules uniform? Is there a soft or hard resin incorporated into the paint? Is the white titanium on the palette titanium/zinc, or is it a flake white manufactured via the Dutch Stack Process? (Or more commonly, a lead white made by a different process altogether?) <br /><br />In the end, there are so many variables involved that a definitive answer about what brush Zorn (may have) used is difficult to state. Unless he told us. Which I don't think he did. And that's assuming he used the same brushes (and materials) throughout his entire career, which few artists ever do.<br /><br />Ironically, most of the paint manufactured today is more homogenized than the paints of even a century ago, and thus they contain less unique characteristics to exploit. Largely because uniformity in particle size, oil, and pigment to oil load is viewed as a desirable thing by the art materials industry. (In truth, a marketing issue convenient for them.) This is why there are so many modern mediums ironically being touted as the "secret sauce of 'Ye Olde Masteres". To offset this homogeneity.<br /><br />So,you should consider what Zorn was able to accomplish may have as much, if not more, to do with the character of the paint he was using than what brush (or more likely, brushes) he held in his hand. And of course, let us not forget his incredible draftsmanship, design skills, and color sense.<br /><br />The best approach is to explore all of these things I mention, plus more, and pay attention to what is happening as you do so. That way you will develop that voodoo that only you can do and we will be left scratching our heads in wonder...<br /><br />Thomas Kitts<br />http://wwwthomaskitts.com<br />Thomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-28678837505797411842015-08-20T16:20:08.262-04:002015-08-20T16:20:08.262-04:00Hey everybody! Does anyone know what kind of brush...Hey everybody! Does anyone know what kind of brushes zorn used ? the boar hair feels hard when you look at his works...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09135026299435965498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-3781992261547246712015-08-20T16:19:23.730-04:002015-08-20T16:19:23.730-04:00Hey everybody! Does anyone know what kind of brush...Hey everybody! Does anyone know what kind of brushes zorn used ? the boar hair feels hard when you look at his works...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09135026299435965498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-74851319548949560432013-12-14T13:39:30.736-05:002013-12-14T13:39:30.736-05:00I am curious, Marius. In your own words, why? How ...I am curious, Marius. In your own words, why? How did using the Zorn palette help you learn to paint?Thomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-56296447522251479392013-12-14T03:51:51.869-05:002013-12-14T03:51:51.869-05:00the art school i'm attending now has students ...the art school i'm attending now has students always use the limited zorn palette before moving on to full color in any introductory painting class. i'm only just now learning the reason why.Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05419875072493013831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-85688470491633324582012-08-14T14:06:57.411-04:002012-08-14T14:06:57.411-04:00The painting with the girls, called "The Miss...The painting with the girls, called "The Misses Solomon" is a watercolor and still a pretty limited palette but include ultramarine and yellow. I just gave a class on a Zorn Palette and we painted in those 4 colors - It was sensational and eyes opening - I would never imagine that warm/cold constant placement will make gray appear so blue and ochre mixed with black appeared green - I'm going to paint in this palette for a while , but will definitely use some blue or green for accentes, exactly what Zorn used to do. <br />Love to all - Emiliya Lane Emiliya Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08329047164037888508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-18951284944976720992011-08-24T08:56:48.699-04:002011-08-24T08:56:48.699-04:00So greaaat !!! I love the one with two girls !!!So greaaat !!! I love the one with two girls !!!Amylee (Paris)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13932140892443333687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-43730581849249460212011-08-10T18:20:49.745-04:002011-08-10T18:20:49.745-04:00Correction:
I meant to say
"and that may be...Correction:<br /><br />I meant to say<br /><br />"and that may be one of the reasons many of Z's thicker passages seem, well translucent."<br /><br /> and not...<br /><br />"and that is one of the reasons many of V's thicker passages seem, well translucent."<br /><br />My apologies if that confused anyone.<br /><br />Thomas Kitts<br />http://wwwthomaskitts.com<br />http://www.thomaskitts.blogspot.comThomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-16739166956684137132011-08-10T18:18:07.076-04:002011-08-10T18:18:07.076-04:00Tancredi:
I echo James' appreciation for the ...Tancredi:<br /><br />I echo James' appreciation for the large Zorn file. If you have any more of them to share I'd appreciate it if you would either post links to them here, or send them to my email, which may be access at either my website or blog (found below).<br /><br />The painting you linked to was not a Zorn I recognized -- nothing unusual about that -- but being able to look that closely at his edge work raised two questions for me I hope you can answer. <br /><br />Do you know if Zorn used any calcite in his paint? There are edges which look rather translucent they make me wonder. We know that Velasquez worked calcite into his paint to expand the warm and cool range of his limited palette and that is one of the reasons many of V's thicker passages seem, well translucent. (And, some saponification of the oil film may be an additional contributing factor as well, but not enough to explain all of the transparency, or finely tuned cool/warm passages.)<br /><br />And since you seem familiar and knowledgeable about Zorn's palette, do you know if was he had predominately used a lead white, or something else? He was painting during a time of transition, as it comes to whites and oil paints.<br /><br />Your thoughts and links would be appreciated.<br /><br />Thomas Kitts<br />http://wwwthomaskitts.com<br />http://www.thomaskitts.blogspot.comThomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-19465797291449021342011-08-09T12:11:09.505-04:002011-08-09T12:11:09.505-04:00Tancredi, thanks for those links to the big files,...Tancredi, thanks for those links to the big files, and thanks EVERYBODY for all the helpful insights. This is why I love doing the blog. I learn just as much as you all do.James Gurneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870848001990898499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-22729831140646206602011-08-08T13:07:04.911-04:002011-08-08T13:07:04.911-04:00or this: http://www.bukowskis.com/uploaded_images/...or this: http://www.bukowskis.com/uploaded_images/0586/4646/IT213724_fullsize.jpgTancredi Valerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440817661054037428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-85696030240332467262011-08-08T13:04:02.945-04:002011-08-08T13:04:02.945-04:00Try this, Thomas:
http://www.bukowskis.com/auctio...Try this, Thomas:<br /><br />http://www.bukowskis.com/auctions/562/85-anders-zorn-sondagsmorgonTancredi Valerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440817661054037428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-50664884916477777672011-08-06T18:00:23.821-04:002011-08-06T18:00:23.821-04:00Tancredi, unfortunately the link you posted gave a...Tancredi, unfortunately the link you posted gave a 'page not found error'. Can you try posting it again, or use another?<br /><br />I'd love to know if there is (or was) a shift in hue between the light and dark ochres you specifically mention. There almost always is whenever a change of value is present. Such subtle hue-shifts become more salient when working with a limited palette, which is one of its inherent charms. It's very much like placing a series of closely-related but different grays next to each other. When there is so little primary or secondary hue present in a mixed color the distinction between various warms and cools appear more pronounced. Which describes Zorn exactly.<br /><br />Can you offer more detail?<br /><br />Thomas Kitts<br />http://wwwthomaskitts.com<br />http://www.thomaskitts.blogspot.comThomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-55435421973562634202011-08-06T17:42:07.523-04:002011-08-06T17:42:07.523-04:00Well, according to his student's account, he u...Well, according to his student's account, he used one "light ochre" ("ljusockra") and one "dark ochre" ("mörkockra"). I interpret "light ochre" to be the same as what is today called "yellow ochre." I bought a tube of "mörkockra" at an art supplies store in Sweden, and it is a medium-value brown, similar to the tones in the hair, chest of the girl who is washing her self in this painting:<br />http://www.bukowskis.com/uploaded_images/0586/464Tancredi Valerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440817661054037428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-79619576701176273952011-08-06T17:41:13.550-04:002011-08-06T17:41:13.550-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tancredi Valerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440817661054037428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-58184448212060713222011-08-05T23:16:49.464-04:002011-08-05T23:16:49.464-04:00Tancredi, you raise some interesting points and I ...Tancredi, you raise some interesting points and I take your references at face value. It is correct that ochre (and all other earth colors) can come in a wide range of colors, enough to go from a reddish to greenish bias, and for both colorants to bear the same name would confuse anyone trying to clarify the matter.<br /><br />Wouldn't be the first time either. Divining any material used by an artist from the past can quickly become a guessing game. For example, at different times in history, and geographical regions, "linen" has been used as a term for a woven cloth made from flax, northern flax (which is different from southern), cotton, burlap, and even hemp. So saying any particular artist preferred to use 'linen' over another fabric support isn't as informative as one might think today.<br /><br />It is entirely conceivable that Zorn used several ochres ranging from the red to the green. <br /><br />Thomas Kitts<br />http://wwwthomaskitts.com<br />http://www.thomaskitts.blogspot.comThomas Jefferson Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12605776648016750552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-15736870494057211902011-08-05T17:29:11.733-04:002011-08-05T17:29:11.733-04:00@ Matthew Innis: maybe Odd Nerdrum uses a limited ...@ Matthew Innis: maybe Odd Nerdrum uses a limited palette now, but when I studied with him he used a much more extended palette, that included ultramarine violet, green umber as well as several yellows and reds..Tancredi Valerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440817661054037428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-37280521005486756652011-08-05T17:25:09.702-04:002011-08-05T17:25:09.702-04:00According to that account, Zorn used two ochres, a...According to that account, Zorn used two ochres, a light (yellow ochre) and a dark (brownish ochre). Also, B. Wilhelmson describes this as Zorn's flesh palette. In other words, it's possible that he used some other colors for his figures in landscapes - like a chromatic green.Tancredi Valerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440817661054037428noreply@blogger.com