tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post6835667789947521698..comments2024-03-28T16:36:12.581-04:00Comments on Gurney Journey: Carolus Duran’s MethodJames Gurneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01870848001990898499noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-29131646487863872212014-01-11T18:28:42.480-05:002014-01-11T18:28:42.480-05:00I think the laque refers to the beetle, from whose...I think the laque refers to the beetle, from whose exoskeleton Carmine and Shellac are made<br />Francis Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629116586628628755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-11015999291250954352009-04-13T21:48:00.000-04:002009-04-13T21:48:00.000-04:00A couple of things, Douglas, I was with you from t...A couple of things, Douglas, I was with you from the beginning on your translations and terms. My issue is that nowhere have I ever seen any flats spots in Sargents' work. The fleeting (no-permanant)colors have famously left the work of other painters normally made before 1820. When one digs deep you do find interesting things in art. For example WA Bouguereau would copy his "pencil" lines with ink, then seal these ink lines with varnish-then begin to paint over this varnish in oil paint. While it is not considered very wise, his ois have held up very well.<br /><br />Secondly there is no lineage as robust as Frank Riley-he can be tracted back to any number of artists and has been. This root system needs some careful research. I think one reason is he and his students take pride in the past connections (lineage) and discuss these in the halls and classrooms of some fine art schools where mystique gets mixed with fact.Timothy Tyler Artisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08190612250936572199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-51367968381957843022009-04-08T12:36:00.000-04:002009-04-08T12:36:00.000-04:00Ralph Mayer in his "The Artist's Handbook" identif...Ralph Mayer in his "The Artist's Handbook" identifies Vert Emerqude as Viridian. He doesn't have an entry for Laque Ordinaire, which translates as "Ordinary Lacquer;" however, his description of Lac on page 48 is as follows: "Not a true pigment. A resin with a deep, transparent, Brownish red color. Not permanent. Obsolete, having been replaced by Alizarin Crimson. Used since early medieval times. Described under Shellac."<BR/>And under "Shellac", page 226: <BR/>The crude material, or stick-lac, is refined into a number of grades...The lesser refined grades (seed-lac, garnet-lac, and button-lac) are a deep blood red; formerly this lac was used to make a red dye..."Douglas Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597990482009757464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-22797443982810048292009-03-29T02:39:00.000-04:002009-03-29T02:39:00.000-04:00I believe Frank Riley's method is an extension of ...I believe Frank Riley's method is an extension of Duran's methodology. I think Jack Faragasso's explanation in his classes at the Art Student's League about the halftones of each plane where pretty much what both Sargent and Duran were saying.Jim Smythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154282455387780977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-7127027477627377392009-03-21T10:11:00.000-04:002009-03-21T10:11:00.000-04:00I've seen that portrait up close and personal in t...I've seen that portrait up close and personal in the Americans in Paris exhibition at the National Gallery - it's amazing.<BR/><BR/>I think I've also read that narrative before but goodness knows where (maybe in an exhibition). It certainly pays rereading. Thanks James.Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-69607041243276513342009-03-18T02:46:00.000-04:002009-03-18T02:46:00.000-04:00Timothy, I did not say that laque translates to ...Timothy, <BR/><BR/> I did not say that laque translates to lake.<BR/><BR/>Again, <BR/><BR/>I believe laque ordinaire is similar to Carmine Lake or Permanent Alizarin Crimson. Basically its a cool red. <BR/><BR/>Best JasonJason Peckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08851518051471565619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-60115448696542009752009-03-17T22:17:00.000-04:002009-03-17T22:17:00.000-04:00Laque is not Lake. Lake in French is spelled Lac y...Laque is not Lake. Lake in French is spelled Lac yes?<BR/><BR/>tct<BR/><BR/>http://www.timothyctyler.com<BR/><BR/>PS. the key to painting like Sargent is to paint everyday and start with what Henry James called;"an insolent degree of talent" ...as a note Duran resented Sargent by the time Sargent was 25 he was eclipsing his teacher. This really crushed Sargent who had studied with Duran for 7 years. Sargent painted El Jaleo and the Oyster Gatherers of Cancall while in Duran's class. Sargent also painted on some of Durans larger works while a student. One of Sargents fellow students got Sargent to paint his brother (twice)Robert Louis Stevenson. He was also buddies with Monet and Manet at the time. Sargent was buying Monets when the French would not. Rodin was one Sargent greatest artist fans.Timothy Tyler Artisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08190612250936572199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-29873785671873376462009-03-16T23:00:00.000-04:002009-03-16T23:00:00.000-04:00What always amazes me was how well these guys cou...What always amazes me was how well these guys could draw, which really makes the tone and color work possible.<BR/>It is like leydndecker and Norman Rockwell. I always feel like rockwell is copying while Leydecker concieved the form in the round and thus he could manage the form any way he wanted.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04641223414745777056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-74523663245664021002009-03-16T18:25:00.001-04:002009-03-16T18:25:00.001-04:00Gold post.Gold post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-24721866657832712452009-03-16T18:25:00.000-04:002009-03-16T18:25:00.000-04:00I believe laque ordinaire is similar to Carmine La...I believe laque ordinaire is similar to Carmine Lake or Permanent Alizarin Crimson. Basically its a cool red. <BR/><BR/>I use this palette, with the exception of 2 added colors. I added Cadmium Lemon, and Cadmium Red. So it looks like this.<BR/><BR/>Flake White<BR/>Cadmium Lemon<BR/>Yellow Ochre<BR/>Terra Rosa, or Light Red<BR/>Cadmium Red<BR/>Alizarin Crimson<BR/>Ultramarine Blue instead of Cobalt<BR/>Raw Umber<BR/>Viridian instead of Emerald Green<BR/>Ivory Black<BR/><BR/>With this palette I can mix nearly any color. I dont feel that its limited in any way. Its an excellent palette for Figures, Portraits, and Landscapes.<BR/><BR/>Best, JasonJason Peckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08851518051471565619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-12341682735634716292009-03-16T17:24:00.000-04:002009-03-16T17:24:00.000-04:00What is interesting if you click on some of the st...What is interesting if you click on some of the student work how much they look like Sargent's work.<BR/><BR/>I understand that Sargent was Duran's best student.jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03014751431677271423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-20011783657383535862009-03-16T14:01:00.000-04:002009-03-16T14:01:00.000-04:00Thank you! Very informative and interesting!Thank you! Very informative and interesting!David Stillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06788583610600014354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-24326949716035240642009-03-16T13:20:00.000-04:002009-03-16T13:20:00.000-04:00Great Post.At first read, I am confused about mi...Great Post.<BR/><BR/>At first read, I am confused about mixing the pure tube colors down in value steps of 2 and 3.<BR/><BR/>I interpret this as an exercise in conservation of values, A) because that's what Carolus and Sargent were always on about and B) that's where I'm at personally -- trying to get better control of my values.<BR/><BR/>Is the idea that the separate colors are mixed down in EQUIVALENT value steps? If so, then when Duran's students mixed corresponding piles of lightened red and yellow ochre they would only change in temperature and not in value?<BR/><BR/>I learned to mix the color first and then adjust for value ( and then re-adjust for temperature if adding white has cooled it too much).<BR/><BR/>Maybe some one who paints in this way (by first mixing out the value steps of all your palette colors) can better explain the philosophy behind the method. What's the advantage? Accuracy? Speed (that is, once all your values are mixed)?Daroohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02269629297022511462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-61043700638310548802009-03-16T13:16:00.000-04:002009-03-16T13:16:00.000-04:00Anybody know what laque ordinaire is supposed to b...Anybody know what laque ordinaire is supposed to be??Brian Buschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09244282553684907579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-91531204143888869112009-03-16T07:19:00.000-04:002009-03-16T07:19:00.000-04:00>>because Duran wished us to actually make a...>>because Duran wished us to actually make and match each bit of the tone of the surface<<<BR/>interesting! I'm sure this adds a lot to the luminosity of a painting.<BR/>The woman on the bottom looks very sargent-ly.Saskiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06301660517419622751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-533386399530026962009-03-16T07:03:00.000-04:002009-03-16T07:03:00.000-04:00Very interesting!Very interesting!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00423051076809524563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2999230124118604245.post-57397325935049455172009-03-16T06:58:00.000-04:002009-03-16T06:58:00.000-04:00I'm trying to interpret the use of the palette in ...I'm trying to interpret the use of the palette in function of the <A HREF="http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2008/05/color-zones-of-face.html" REL="nofollow">facial values</A>.<BR/>I guess that the light yellow ocres are for the forehead and highlights, the reds for the skin - especially the middle part of the face - and the blue perhaps for that subtle touch of blue/grey in the chin area.Erik Bongershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02409523352634066030noreply@blogger.com